Access to Finnish TV (Canal+)

[imported_mara]

Hi,

I am totally new to this. My wife is Finnish and we would like to view Finnish TV (YLE, MTV3, Nelonen etc). We have subscribed to Canal+ in Finland (via family) and now have the card and set top box issued by Canal+. We are currently Sky subscribers and need to maintain this.

I know the Finnish channels are on Thor 2/3 at 0.8 West and I believe on the "Nordic Beam" whatever that means. We live 5 miles west of York city centre.

I now need to get an appropriate dish. Ideally, I would have one dish with 2 LMBs to pick up Canal+ and Sky, even better would be a 1m dish or less that replaced the Sky dish on the wall of the house.


I have contact 3 local suppliers and had three very different pieces of advice and now feel stuck:

1. The first (a supplier only from just up the road) said a 90cm "Toroidal" dish with 2 LMBs would do it easily and give scope for expansion to other satellites in the future, seemed ideal, only they don't fit so I would have to find a decent fitter.

2. An installation company came around and said we'd need a 1.5m dish (again could have 2 LMBs) and it would need to be put in the garden on a concrete slab. This is clearly significantly more expensive (about £750 fitted) and more ugly and prone to demolition by my 2 year old twins.

3. A third company (suspected cowboys) came around and told me we needed a 1.8m dish in the garden and these were special order from Italy, it would take some time to deliver and be expensive.

I bought "What Satellite and Digital TV" which seems to suggest 90cm would be enough, but doesn't list the Finnish channels.

Clearly from a cost and neatness point of view, the 90cm option would be best, but not if the picture quality if poor (And if I buy the kit and installation separate, I carry the risk if its not good enough). If I need to I'll put a bigger dish in the garden, but really feel the need for better and independent advice.

I would really appreciate any help/advice/experience anyone can share with me.

Many thanks.

[Analoguesat]

Hi mara - welcome to the forum.

The Finnish channels are broadcast on the Thor 3 satellite. As you can see from the attached graphic the UK is right on the edge of the coverage area. So York is about on the edge of the 43db power line. That initially suggests a 100cm dish is required.

Let me go and have a look at another couple of sites and I'll get back later.

[Analoguesat]

From

http://en.kingofsat.net/beams.php?s=29

UK logs

2004-10-09 15:57:55 Mike G1SBN (53.5N-1.4W,90cm) Breaks up - very borderline signal

2004-06-25 13:56:41 colin_312 (53.5N-2.1W,100cm) stong signal 87%

2002-10-06 14:02:17 James (53.3N-1.2W,120cm) Strong signal, about 70%

[Analoguesat]

As for your dish arrangement unless you go for one of the (very) expensive toroidal dishes you are going to need 2 dishes .

[Jimdefruit]

Hi Mara, welcome to the forum. The info that analoguesat has given shows that the civil engineering company that quoted £750 are out to fleece you.

Dont take too much notice of the signal strength differences listed because it very much depends on the receiver signal metering. The important thing is the fact that the 90 cm dish does give breakup whereas the 100 cm dish appears to give a good picture.

Your options really appear to be 3. The nearly 30 degree angle between the 0.8W THor that you want and the 28.2E Astra2 for Sky means that there will be a compromise on the signals from one or both satellites if you opt for a single dish. I assume you would optimise the dish on Thor which would be the weaker signal and accept a weaker signal from Astra which should not be a problem in normal conditions.

The options I mentioned above would be:
1. Keep the Sky dish and add a separate 1 metre dish for Thor. Possibly an aesthetic problem to you.
2. Install a single 100 cm dish with 2 lnbs. The dish would be installed to pick up the best possible signal from Thor and a poorer although possible acceptable signal from Astra2.
3. Install a 100 cm motorised dish which would allow you to get signals from the two satellites plus from a number of others.

Unless you want to receive a number of satellites, my preference would be for 1 or 2, particularly if you want to record programmes from one satellite whilst watching a channel from the other.

Give it some thought and please ask if you want any other guidance.

[BGonaSTICK]

Without doing any hardcore research, here I my initial thoughts.

I cannot get anything at all from Thor3 on my 88cm dish in Brighton, though Thor2 is no problem at all.

The reports above are quite old and things might have changed a little since then. They could even be from Thor2 - it's a common mistake to make.

My feeling, based on other peoples reports, is that a 1.2m dish would be required for good, if not weatherproof reception from Thor3.

Your northerly location (compared to me) isn't a significant handicap for Thor3.

Toroidal dishes are superb, but big and ugly (unless you are a satellite dish nut of course!).

I don't think the toroidal T90 90cm dish is large enough, though it should easily do Thor2 and Astra2 (Sky). I wouldn't go this route.

You will not need a 1.8m dish IMO, though they are available from the UK if you choose to go large.

A 1.2m/1.25m dish (or 1.5m if you want to go a bit OTT) would be my choice, and I have to say that I would pole mount it on a slab, or a heavy duty patio stand. You could always lift it up three or four feet out of the kid's reach, but you might then need some extra wire ties to keep it 100% stable.

Something like the Channel Master (Andrews) 1.2m or the Gibertini 1.25m would be a sensible move, and I would definitely keep the existing Sky dish setup as it is. Trying to throw that into the mix will be unhelpful I feel.

I also think that there is a huge difference in visual impact between a 1.25m and a 1.5m dish.

I think I would go for a Gibertini 1.25m simply based on price, unless you can find a good second-hand Channel Master.

Hope this helps.

[imported_mara]

Thanks all, extremely helpful.

What I take away from this exchange is to avoid the 90cm option, 100cm may work but best go for 1.25m.

I now plan to leave the Sky dish alone, get a 1.2m Gibertini on a tripod stand in the garden.

Just got to find a good installer now, I have been to the CAI web site and will pick from the installers in my region, I'm guessing this is a sound way to avoid the cowboys.

If all goes well and I get the urge, would it be possible to add a motor to the system at a later date?

[nanochickin]

Just got to find a good installer now

You could always have a go at it yourself, definately the best way to avoid the cowboys and its a lot cheaper

Its always a bit daunting when you first start off but once you have found your first satellite it only gets easier from there

would it be possible to add a motor to the system at a later date?

You could add a motor at a later date but you will need to make sure your receiver supports either USALS or DISEqC 1.2 in order to control the motor.

With this in mind you may have to also change your receiver at a later date as well if you do go down the motorised route.

With a motorised system it may be possible to run both the Canal+ and Sky NDS card in the same receiver which does away with the crappy Sky Digibox.

Unfortunately as far as i am aware upto now only the Dreambox receivers can support NDS at the moment without the need to periodically re-inserting the card into the Digibox to keep the card alive


Hope this helps.



Nano

[satsid]

(My feeling, based on other peoples reports, is that a 1.2m dish would be required for good, if not weatherproof reception from Thor3.)

hi m8 a 1.2 dish would be the min i would use Nelonen etc,i use to have this card many moons back in the north west uk.even with a 1.2 meter dish in bad wether i would get brake up of pic.for 100% good viewing all the time it will need a 1.5 meter dish.but most of the time a 1.2 would be ok if not raining.when i had this card i used a 1.2 meter channel master dish for it.some dishes are not as good as the channel master.hope this helps.ps 1 west sits a bit higher in the clark belt,so if you dont use a motor you can pinch a bit more signel from 1 west.
from.
sid

[BGonaSTICK]

Yes, I think Sid's assessment pretty much reflects my thinking. You would have to accept a little break-up in really bad weather to save going to 1.5m

Just a couple more follow-up points. It's not a tripod stand you need but a proper 3" dia. pole in a patio-mount. You can get some nice big ones that you just drop four large paving slabs into to hold it down.

If you want to motorise in the future, I would go for the Gibertini polar mount & 36V actuator, plus a VBOX.

About an extra £170. The Gibertini is too big for a DiSEqC motor IMO.

CAI is as good a place to start as any if you don't want to have a go yourself. A fixed dish should be within your capability though if it's on a low mount.