Land Point-to-Point Networking - Techwatch: Satellite TV forums, FTA, Cable, Hardware, & Tech forums

Switchz0r · 03-03-07, 12:06 PM

Hi,

I am not really sure if anyone can actually help me with this, but thats not gunna stop me from asking...

I am Australian, I manage two datacenters and we are currently paying for two OC3 connections from a provider by the name of 'Equinix'. I have heard of people sharing 1 connection via wireless access antennas and a satellite pointing to it. I have also heard of people having a 'point to point' satellite network with 2 dishes pointing at eachother. By this I mean cutting out the satellite in space...

I was just wondering if those above methods would work and how I would go about setting that up?

Thanks in advance.

Analoguesat · 03-03-07, 12:26 PM

Something like this might work for you:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...5E83027AF10110

If theres enough bandwidth in there to transmit a tv signal theres nough bandwidth for a LOT of data.

The article says the info is all documented so you might be able to track it down on the tvstation website

BGonaSTICK · 03-03-07, 09:29 PM

You will obviously need line-of-sight for a dish-dish connection, as the beam is generally very narrow at microwave frequencies and when using a such aerials.

Have you thought about Wifi over a highly directional yagi-type antenna?

This is just one I found quickly on ebay that'll do 9000m at 19dBi, but there are far more 'powerful' versions (more gain and higher power-handling).

I've seen home-made dish antenna carrying WiFi before, and they fascinate me. I'd love to set one up for a test.

The more common arrangement is to use a tube (like a 'Pringles' crisp tube) and attach an SMA pigtail to it.

Switchz0r · 04-03-07, 01:55 AM

Thanks for the responses, however with the wok idea and all this, though it is very interesting... The cost of setup is not an issue... Be it that these people say they do this over 20KM there are a issue that arise for me. My datacenters are located between 80-120KM away from eachother (120 by road 80 by direct LOS).

From what I have gathered by researching bot dish-dish and antennas, I will need coax modems to receive/transmit a network data between 2 servers... What modems are suggested to run a network at a minimal 155MBit that the OC3 connection is rated at?

As far as I know, COAXIAL transmitter/receivers are run by DOCSIS, DOCSIS is only able to transmit at up to 51Mbit/38Mbit, this would cripple my connection on the receiving end.

The best modem I was able to find under DOCSIS 2.0 was a DW6000 witch was only capable of speeds up to 48MBit/2Mbit... I have spoken to an antenna 'expert' who specializes in television, he claims it is capable of transmitting an internet connection via antenna over long range it just depends on the receiver, he is only experienced in satellite TV, cable TV and VCR/TV receivers. He also said that like TV, I should expect that the connection will loose speed because of the traveling distance. He also said "Not knowing much about Internet modems or how it is received that, if i where to use a slower modem at approximately 1/3 of connection speed over 80KM - that I would probable get full 'DOCSIS2' speed or maybe less."

That being said I would still profer a faster modem to ensure full connection speed, that or an antenna tha is capable of relaying data to a switch.

Thanks...

Stv · 04-03-07, 08:13 AM

To achieve line of sight over 80km you will need to mount your antenna VERY high up - something like 95 metres up at each end according to my calculations, and that is ignoring the possibility of obstructions between your sites.

I also guess you will need to consider microwaving anyone who may live in between, depending how wide a beam your antenna creates.

http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_radar_line..._equation.html

Analoguesat · 04-03-07, 10:34 AM

80kms.... that takes you into a whole different ball game. You would probably be better going for a satellite data link

BGonaSTICK · 04-03-07, 12:18 PM

That's way beyond anything I've ever looked at. I worked with a microwave link of maybe 10kms once between two datacentres, and that was some real expensive kit. It was also a long time ago, and the bandwidth was minuscule compared to todays standards.

Switchz0r · 04-03-07, 02:15 PM

dish-dish you say?

this arises my questions again,

what modem do I use to transmit and receive at speeds greater then DOCSIS2?
can I use a switch of some sort instead of a modem to get up to 1GBit rates?

I know you guys are all about FTA TV but I am hoping at least 1 of you have experienced this... or something similar... as i exhausted all my options, resulted to searching google for some forums and found 3 and so far only got a response from this one.

As i did state orginally, would a dish-antenna work?

If so I could use antenna as the connection home and have the satellite point to it to send/receive.

03-03-07, 12:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Switchz0r Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Land Point-to-Point Networking Hi, I am not really sure if anyone can actually help me with this, but thats not gunna stop me from asking... I am Australian, I manage two datacenters and we are currently paying for two OC3 connections from a provider by the name of 'Equinix'. I have heard of people sharing 1 connection via wireless access antennas and a satellite pointing to it. I have also heard of people having a 'point to point' satellite network with 2 dishes pointing at eachother. By this I mean cutting out the satellite in space... I was just wondering if those above methods would work and how I would go about setting that up? Thanks in advance.

03-03-07, 12:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
Analoguesat Site Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Scottish Borders Posts: 7,862 Thanks: 7 Thanked 211 Times in 199 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking Something like this might work for you: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...5E83027AF10110 If theres enough bandwidth in there to transmit a tv signal theres nough bandwidth for a LOT of data. The article says the info is all documented so you might be able to track it down on the tvstation website __________________ Dreambox 7020 / Pace Sky Digibox / Amstrad Sky Italia box 5 dishes for 5E/9E/13E/16E/19E/23E/28E Please DO NOT pm the mods & admins for c&ble keys. You may get banned for it! Read the rules before you post - click here to read them

03-03-07, 09:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
BGonaSTICK Super Murderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 10,627 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking You will obviously need line-of-sight for a dish-dish connection, as the beam is generally very narrow at microwave frequencies and when using a such aerials. Have you thought about Wifi over a highly directional yagi-type antenna? This is just one I found quickly on ebay that'll do 9000m at 19dBi, but there are far more 'powerful' versions (more gain and higher power-handling). I've seen home-made dish antenna carrying WiFi before, and they fascinate me. I'd love to set one up for a test. The more common arrangement is to use a tube (like a 'Pringles' crisp tube) and attach an SMA pigtail to it. __________________ Dreambox 7000, Skystar2 PCI, Skystar USB, Fibo 90cm on Moteck SG2100, Triax TD110 multi-LNB. Sky + ART cards. 45.0°E - 58.0°W

04-03-07, 01:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
Switchz0r Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking Thanks for the responses, however with the wok idea and all this, though it is very interesting... The cost of setup is not an issue... Be it that these people say they do this over 20KM there are a issue that arise for me. My datacenters are located between 80-120KM away from eachother (120 by road 80 by direct LOS). From what I have gathered by researching bot dish-dish and antennas, I will need coax modems to receive/transmit a network data between 2 servers... What modems are suggested to run a network at a minimal 155MBit that the OC3 connection is rated at? As far as I know, COAXIAL transmitter/receivers are run by DOCSIS, DOCSIS is only able to transmit at up to 51Mbit/38Mbit, this would cripple my connection on the receiving end. The best modem I was able to find under DOCSIS 2.0 was a DW6000 witch was only capable of speeds up to 48MBit/2Mbit... I have spoken to an antenna 'expert' who specializes in television, he claims it is capable of transmitting an internet connection via antenna over long range it just depends on the receiver, he is only experienced in satellite TV, cable TV and VCR/TV receivers. He also said that like TV, I should expect that the connection will loose speed because of the traveling distance. He also said "Not knowing much about Internet modems or how it is received that, if i where to use a slower modem at approximately 1/3 of connection speed over 80KM - that I would probable get full 'DOCSIS2' speed or maybe less." That being said I would still profer a faster modem to ensure full connection speed, that or an antenna tha is capable of relaying data to a switch. Thanks...

04-03-07, 08:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
Stv Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking To achieve line of sight over 80km you will need to mount your antenna VERY high up - something like 95 metres up at each end according to my calculations, and that is ignoring the possibility of obstructions between your sites. I also guess you will need to consider microwaving anyone who may live in between, depending how wide a beam your antenna creates. http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_radar_line..._equation.html


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04-03-07, 10:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Analoguesat Site Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Scottish Borders Posts: 7,862 Thanks: 7 Thanked 211 Times in 199 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking 80kms.... that takes you into a whole different ball game. You would probably be better going for a satellite data link __________________ Dreambox 7020 / Pace Sky Digibox / Amstrad Sky Italia box 5 dishes for 5E/9E/13E/16E/19E/23E/28E Please DO NOT pm the mods & admins for c&ble keys. You may get banned for it! Read the rules before you post - click here to read them

04-03-07, 12:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
BGonaSTICK Super Murderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 10,627 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking That's way beyond anything I've ever looked at. I worked with a microwave link of maybe 10kms once between two datacentres, and that was some real expensive kit. It was also a long time ago, and the bandwidth was minuscule compared to todays standards. __________________ Dreambox 7000, Skystar2 PCI, Skystar USB, Fibo 90cm on Moteck SG2100, Triax TD110 multi-LNB. Sky + ART cards. 45.0°E - 58.0°W

04-03-07, 02:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
Switchz0r Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Land Point-to-Point Networking dish-dish you say? this arises my questions again, what modem do I use to transmit and receive at speeds greater then DOCSIS2? can I use a switch of some sort instead of a modem to get up to 1GBit rates? I know you guys are all about FTA TV but I am hoping at least 1 of you have experienced this... or something similar... as i exhausted all my options, resulted to searching google for some forums and found 3 and so far only got a response from this one. As i did state orginally, would a dish-antenna work? If so I could use antenna as the connection home and have the satellite point to it to send/receive.