Astra 2 on Bisat Dish

[Roman]

Hi All,

I'm hoping that someone may be able to help with this one, but to be honest I think I already know the answers.

I recently bought a Visiosat Bisat 75cm dish, two Inverto Silvertech 0.2db lnbs and a Phoenix Apollo receiver. I had this professionally installed, pointing at Astra 1 and Hotbird, using the dedicated lnb holder specifically designed for this purpose. The system worked fine.

However, in my new-found enthusiasm for multi-satellite I have just purchased the Bisat additional dedicated bracket to allow Astra 2 reception as well as the existing satellites, with another Inverto Silvertech 0.2db lnb. In addition, I decided that I'd have a go at fitting this myself, so also purchased a Digisat Pro satellite meter.

So far so good....

However I've just spent the morning trying to get this installed, with mixed results. The additional bracket and lnb are fitted as per the instructions. In fact according to the instructions all I have to do is point the central lnb at Astra 1 and by default the other two lnbs should be pointing at Hotbird and Astra 2 by default. The only remaining task being to use the adjustment mechanism on the lnb holders to adjust the height of the lnbs to obtain the optimum signals.

The Digisat Pro has worked a treat and allowed me to align Astra 1 and Hotbird successfully, with signal strengths of 60% and 50% respectively. The Apollo receiver's own signal strength meter confirming exactly the same strengths as the Digisat Pro and producing execellent pictures from both Astra 1 and Hotbird.

However, when it comes to Astra 2 things have not been as successful. The Digisat Pro only reports a maximum signal strength of 30%, no matter how I wiggle the dish or lnb. In addition, the Apollo receiver reports that it is not receiving any signal at all from Astra 2.

I've tried swapping cables between lnbs, switching ports on the Global 4 way lnb switch and I've played with the settings on the Apollo receiver. The results are the same, good pictures from Astra 1 and Hotbird, but nothing from Astra 2.

Given the above I guess I'm looking for some answers to the following questions.

1. Given my location (Frodsham near Chester, North West), am I expecting too much for the Bisat dish to be able to receive all three satellites?
2. Is the Inverto lnb suitable for Astra 2?
3. Given that the Digisat Pro meter reports 30% signal strength from Astra 2, why is the Apollo receiver not seeing any signal at all, is the tuner simply not very sensitive?

I suspect the answers to 1 and 3 are the real issue here and that it's a 'Yes' to both of them that's contributing to my lack of success.

However, I'm hoping that as this is the first time I've done this, someone may be able to point out something obvious that I'm missing.

Cheers, Roman

[SAT-WORLD]

Have you tried aligning the dish to Astra 2,simply on its own?.
Have you tried a different lnb?,it could be faulty.
Signal Quality is more important than signal quality,what is the SQ for Astra 2?
Are you sure that you are scanning Astra 2(28E)and Eurobird(28.5E),and not Astra 3A/1D?
Have you tried changing the skew for the lnb,and remember the lnb for Astra 2,should be positioned higher than both Astra1 and Hotbird.
It could be that 75cm,is just too small for 3 lnbs,the usual mimimum size for 3 lnbs is 80cm.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by SAT-WORLD

Have you tried aligning the dish to Astra 2,simply on its own?.
Have you tried a different lnb?,it could be faulty.
Signal Quality is more important than signal quality,what is the SQ for Astra 2?
Are you sure that you are scanning Astra 2(28E)and Eurobird(28.5E),and not Astra 3A/1D?
Have you tried changing the skew for the lnb,and remember the lnb for Astra 2,should be positioned higher than both Astra1 and Hotbird.
It could be that 75cm,is just too small for 3 lnbs,the usual mimimum size for 3 lnbs is 80cm.

Hi SAT-WORLD,

Thanks for your response.

I've tried swapping the lnbs around and they all work on Astra 1 / Hotbird, so it can't be them.

Because the bracket is fixed molded plastic, apparantly if the dish is pointed properly at Astra 1 the second and third lnbs should be pointed at Astra 2 and Hotbird. I'm getting a good Hotbird signal, so I guess the other lnb must be pointed at Astra 2 rather than Astra 3A. Unfortunately I can't confirm this directly as my signal meter doesn't give the satellite name, so I'm having to use a compass and some educated guesswork.

I've played with the skew of the lnb to get the best signal and the lnb is higher than Astra 1 and Hotbird.

The only thing I haven't done yet is point the dish directly at Astra 2, as you suggest, and use the central lnb. I'll give this a go over the weekend and see what happens.

Cheers, Roman

[BGonaSTICK]

Yes, good advice from SAT-WORLD - at least that would prove the basics are working OK. I would leave the LNB configuration as it is, with ASTRA2 out on the extension, and just see what sort of magnitude of re-alignment it takes to peak the signal on it.

Are you sure you've fitted the extension bracket correctly? Is there much in the way of adjustment available?

Can you post a picture? Often it's possible to spot obvious setup problems that way.

I've seen details of the Visiosat, and if it says that it can do Astra2 as well, then it really should be OK! If you're getting good reception on 13E and 19.2E then 28.2E reception should be no problem. The Inverto should also be just fine. I use them on my multi-LNB dish and they work well.

I would take all signal readings with a large pinch of salt. You can't really compare the meter to the receiver. It could well be that the receiver won't do anything below 50% signal strength. And Sat-World is right - focus on signal quality.

I think that something is fundamentally wrong. Astra2 should rip the needle off your meter.

It's good that you're having a go yourself. It's usually just a case of patience and lots of steaming hot tea and coffee!

Keep us posted

[jontydog]

Sounds like it just needs a bit of tweaking to me 50 and 60% on hotbird and astra could be a bit better and you could be missing some channels. I usually get between 70 and 75% on those but I have an 80cm dish.

[Roman]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for all the suggestions and words of encouragement, much appreciated.

I take your point about signal quality rather than strength. Unfortunately my meter doesn't show quality and even though the receiver does, it's not showing any reception on Astra 2 at all.

I've now tried Satworld's suggestion and tried pointing the dish directly at Astra 2. But much to my surprise I can't lock onto it at all !!! Though I'm beginning to wish I'd bought a meter that told you what satellite you are pointing at, just to be sure!

So the mists do begin to clear a little. A 75cm dish pointing directly at Astra 2 should be no problem, therefore something else is wrong. To be honest I think that the location of the dish may the issue. I live in a conservation area and so have had the dish mounted only a couple of feet off the ground on a garage wall, to avoid complaints from the neighbours (and Council). There are some releatively small trees 5m or so away and whilst they wouldn't cause a problem for a dish mounted above head height, they may be causing a problem for my dish. This may also explain the less than perfect strength of Astra 1 and Hotrbird, albeit that I can receive acceptable signals from them.

So I guess I may try moving the dish to a slightly better position. I'll give that a go and report back. I'll also get some pictures posted so that you can see how I'm getting on.

Many thanks, Roman

[Roman]

Here are a couple of pictures of the dish we're talking about.

[diapason]

This might give a clue. When I started off, I had one dish pointed to 28.2E. To receive channels from 19.2E all I had to do was move the dish horizontally to the west and channels on 19.2 came through loud and clear without any adjustment of the vertical height of the dish. Channels from 13E required the dish to be moved another 3 degrees to the west but also to be elevated about one and a half inches.

I now have two dishes - one pointed to 28.2E and the larger one receiving 19.2 and 13E. 28.2 is lower in the sky than 19.2 and a good bit lower than 13E, but it's 9 degrees horizontally away from the nearest neighbour at 19.2E, whereas Hotbird is just 6 degrees horizontally and a little bit higher in the sky. I would experiment with the horizontal separation of the LNB receiving 28.2 and play about with the vertical setting. I would also change the leads to your highest set LNB and move the dish until you get all the channels on 19.2, as that might give you an idea of how far to move the whole assembly when returning your dish to the best position.

Ramble over - hope it might give some clue.

[BGonaSTICK]

Just visually, the Astra2 LNB looks to be set too high, and not spaced anywhere near enough away from the other two LNBs.

The sighting of the dish is everything, and the Astra2 birds will be lower in the sky than the other two locations (19.2E and 13E).

I take your point about the meter and quality readings. Get close using signal strength on the in-line meter, then focus on quality via the receiver.

It's really not worth spending loads of money on expensive meters when you're just starting to experiment. Finding which satellite you're on is quite easy - just scan the satellite you think it is, and compare the channels you can actually see on-screen with a list at somewhere like Lyngsat. You'll soon either match it up or rule it out.

Keep trying, and keep us up to date

[Roman]

Guys,

Once again thanks for the suggestions.

Unfortunately I can't adjust the horizontal spacing of the lnbs as they are fixed. The only adjustment is the vertical positioning, where they can move up and down on the vertical tracks you can see in the photo.

I think I will try and move the dish. Given that I live in a conservation area, options are limited. However, you will see from the photo that the dish is currently mounted on a garage wall very low down, overlapping the front of the wall corner. I'm thinking of moving it on the side wall towards the back fence you can see in the picture. This will also allow me to raise the dish to about 6 feet. As long as the dish isn't visible from the main road (which is behind that fence) I should be ok with the council and neighbours. I'm hoping that the angle of the dish, which is slighly away from the garage wall, will mean that I won't lose any signal from Hotbird. Astra 1 and Astra 2 actually come from the other direction anyway so they should be fine.

In order to do the move I will need a large stand-off bracket, as the dish will have to be perpendicular to the garage wall itself. Any suggestions here would be most welcome. I have seen 18 inch brackets advertised, which I think will provide enough clearance. Any ideas where is the best place to buy such brackets?

Cheers, Roman