Diseqc 1.1 non committed Switches

[canofan]

I mean this thread as an introduction for constructive discussions on the matter of DISEqC switching and as a platform that tries to solve problems arising from such applications.

This description applies to a single user point of view because DISEqC 1.1 applies only to a single receiver.

Once you decide to go the multi LNB way, you are bound to use DISEqC switches. There are 2 types of those:
committed switch DISEqC 1.0 and
uncommitted switch DISEqC 1.1

1- The DISEqC 1.0 supports a maximum of 4 LNBs. This exists in a passive weatherproof version (gets its power from the receiver), and
an active version multiswitch (gets its power from a mains outlet and usually not weatherproof) used for quattro LNBs and single band LNBs like NORSAT, CALAMP and SMW, which are then powered directly from the multiswitch, and where no switching within the LNB is required, this last version allows the use of multiple receiver tuning each to a different satellite/transponder.

2- The DISEqC 1.1 supports more than 4 LNBs, but its main advantage is its possibility to cascade (daisy chaining, as someone put it) with 1.0 DISEqC switches of the two types described above. They exist in the present day as:
2 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switches max 8 LNBs,
4 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switches max 16 LNBs,
8 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switchesmax 32 LNBs and
10 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switches max 40 LNBs.
This applies whether switching or "quattro lnbs with multiswitch" are used, and of course, using the outputs from both types simultaneously is possible.

3- You can also cascade two levels of NC 1.1 switches.
You just treat the first level NC as if it were a 1.0 DISEqC.
You put the DISEqC parameter on 1.0 and select the port, but instead of using AA, AB, BA OR BB, you go further down the ladder and choose one of the numbers 1 to 16.
The actual limit, with a Non Committed 16 port switch ( I do not know if one exists), should in theory be 16X16= 256 LNBs.

Passive DISEqC 1.0 and 1.1 switches when used for switching LNBs do carry power from the 14v/18v/22khz from the receiver to the LNBs.
Multiswitches use the 14v/18v/22khz from e.g receiver A, not to power the LNB, but as a signal for the multiswitch to select the correct polarity for receiver A. This imposes less strain on the switches and receiver.
If all LNBs are quattro (renown to be virtually fail proof) no strain at all is imposed on the receiver or the cascaded switches, as they do not have to carry current but only voltage signal. This shows the advantage of using such equipment for reliability, stability and durability in the long run, especially when it is undesirable to access LNBs.

[Robbo]

Very useful info there Canofan

Thanks.

[canofan]

Hi Robbo,
If I do not put it there It will not post by itself.
I hope that members of this forum will add their experience to enrich this thread.
By the way does this mean anything? Robbo
كيبل اعضاء البلهاء

[canofan]

UPDATE.

"I mean this thread as an introduction for constructive discussions on the matter of DISEqC switching and as a platform that tries to solve problems arising from such applications.

This description applies to a single user point of view because DISEqC 1.1 applies only to a single receiver.

Once you decide to go the multi LNB way, you are bound to use DISEqC switches. There are 2 types of those:
committed switch DISEqC 1.0 and
uncommitted switch DISEqC 1.1

1- The DISEqC 1.0 supports a maximum of 4 LNBs. This exists in a passive weatherproof version (gets its power from the receiver), and
an active version multiswitch (gets its power from a mains outlet and usually not weatherproof) used for quattro LNBs and single band LNBs like NORSAT, CALAMP and SMW, which are then powered directly from the multiswitch, and where no switching within the LNB is required, this last version allows the use of multiple receiver tuning each to a different satellite/transponder.

2- The DISEqC 1.1 supports more than 4 LNBs, but its main advantage is its possibility to cascade (daisy chaining, as someone put it) with 1.0 DISEqC switches of the two types described above. They exist in the present day as:
2 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switches max 8 LNBs,
4 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switches max 16 LNBs,
8 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switchesmax 32 LNBs and
10 input when cascaded with DISEqC 1.0 switches max 40 LNBs.
This applies whether switching or "quattro lnbs with multiswitch" are used, and of course, using the outputs from both types simultaneously is possible.

3- You can also cascade two levels of NC 1.1 switches.
You just treat the first level NC as if it were a 1.0 DISEqC.
You put the DISEqC parameter on 1.0 and select the port, but instead of using AA, AB, BA OR BB, you go further down the ladder and choose one of the numbers 1 to 16.
The actual limit, with a Non Committed 16 port switch ( I do not know if one exists), should in theory be 16X16= 256 LNBs.

Passive DISEqC 1.0 and 1.1 switches when used for switching LNBs do carry power from the 14v/18v/22khz from the receiver to the LNBs.
Multiswitches use the 14v/18v/22khz from e.g receiver A, not to power the LNB, but as a signal for the multiswitch to select the correct polarity for receiver A. This imposes less strain on the switches and receiver.
If all LNBs are quattro (renown to be virtually fail proof) no strain at all is imposed on the receiver or the cascaded switches, as they do not have to carry current but only voltage signal. This shows the advantage of using such equipment for reliability, stability and durability in the long run, especially when it is undesirable to access LNBs."

When I cascaded DISEqC 1.x switches, I often found that the transponders contents of one satellite end up in the list of the transponder that has the same number, polarity and signal rate of another satellite.
This does not happen when using switches with the DISEqC 2.x specification.
I cannot explain why yet, but it is worthwhile letting you know.

[snooker121]

Canofan excellent article!! I once raised this issues but i didnt get much response.

Basically i have a quad lnb on a TM6900 box and i can remember when it was first installed, i was able to carry my one box around the rooms where there was a satelite point and plug the box in and i actually been able to move the dish to any location i want.

Then i had some problem with my dish and got someone else to fix and now the old setup i had where i come move the dish in any room is no longer there.

What is wrong with my setup can you enlighten me?

[canofan]

I assume that your Quad was wired down to four different rooms.
If it does not work that way anymore, you should check that the three other satellite points are still connected to the LNB.

[snooker121]

As far i can tell the other 3 point can still works because i still able to signal but,
1, The sat signal set in the main 1 will also shows at all the 3 points in the rooms. However i am not able to move the dish from any of three points, am wondering whether i had to program each of the 3 lnb points need to reprogram?
Or do the lnb needs to dasy chain in certain order?

[canofan]

I did not realise your setup was motorised.
Only one LNB output is connected to the DISEqC motor. The receiver in position 1 is the only one capable of driving the motor because it is connected to it.
One way of solving your problem is to remove your DISEqC motor and replace it with a 36 volt actuator. The actuator is connected by means of four wires two for supply and two for sensing. The control of the actuator should be manual in your case. Choose one with a radiowave remote control, which you could carry along with the receiver.