Found Sky news and BBC streams on Astra 2D but need help with the others

[Ketchie27]

Hello, I'm hoping someone can help. I've got an old Echostar 770FTA box and have lost all the BBC, ITV, etc channels. I was getting them through the Eurobird on 28.5 and the Astra on 19.2. I just can't find them again, nor any lists of TPs for them.I've searched channels on Astra 28.2, added the TPs from a list, but there is no signal at all. However the pay channels have a good signal bar (can't see the picture as I don't subscribe), and Sky news and BBC streams do have a great pic (99 percent strength).I should add that I changed the LNB today, but I've put the old one back on and used my sat finder to re-align it as the dish moved a degree. Can I have done something stupid?!Should I go buy a new box tomorrow? Have to watch Dr Who on Christmas day!! Shops closed Wednesday as I'm in sunny Spain.Many thanks.Ketchie

[Analoguesat]

As you are in Spain the BBC & ITV channels on Astra 2D will be ultra marginal for you. A tiny adjustment in the dish can ruin the reception, so if you were heavy handed changing the lnb you may well need a professional to come along and re-align the dish.

Dont worry about Dr Who - it will be repeated in a few weeks time ad nauseum

For starters put the original LNB back EXACTLY as you found it before you started buggering around with it - clamped the same place in the holder with the same amount of twist on it.

[Analoguesat]

BTW - the BBC streams are not on Astra 2D - which is why you can get them.....

[Ketchie27]

Thanks for your quick reply...but...my receiver has BBC streams stored on Astra something at 28.2. My receiver calls it Astra 2A, 2B, 2D all in a bunch. How do you know if it's on A or B? Signal strengths at 97 percent, quality at 83 at the moment so sounds pretty good. Frequency is 12441, 27500. The list of TPs for the other channels are all on 22000. Would that make a difference somehow?

[Analoguesat]

There are 5 different satellites at 28E using 10 different transmission beams.

The BBC ITV & C4 use Astra 2D - the difficult one in your location.

The BBCi stream use the 2B south beam which is exceptionally strong in Spain. Look at this page - it will make things clearer:

FlySat Eurobird 1 - Astra 2A/2B/2D @ 28.5/28.2° East

[Ketchie27]

Thanks again. Think I am getting a little closer understanding with your help.

So the Astra 2D only broadcasts using Symbol Rate 22000 then? That would correspond with the other list of channels I found.

You say 5 Satelittes using 10 different beams from the same point in the sky? How do they fit?! As I have a good signal from 1 beam it doesn't mean I am actually pointed right for the other beams then? So as you said first, need the dish wiggling.

However, have gone through my receiver and the 80 channels I have from 19.2, 28.2, 28.5 sats are all on 27500, no signal at all on 22000. Does this make any sense?

[nvingo]

I'm not sure but I don't think the symbol rate has anything to signal strength, although the receiver has to be compatible to receive it (are there any that aren't?).

The problem is the footprint.
See this Additive Colour Mixing diagram, it's what I was looking for to explain this with, but rather smaller.

Imagine there were three satellite beams coloured red, green and blue, from the same orbital position. Because they have the same position, to see directly into the light you need to aim you viewing device (dish) at that point in space.
However, the ideal geographic position for the viewer is the one where all colours shine (the white area) as with that you will have the full service (all channels).
If you are geographically in the area lit up red, you will only have 1/3rd of the channels.
As you move into the area covered by the other beams, you can begin to collect the light from them. To collect more light (or a stronger signal) you need either a larger dish, or to move towards the centre of the beam.
So to receive the extra channels you will need a larger dish. If you are too far from the beam the size required may be impractical.

Well I hope that explains footprint a little for you.

[Analoguesat]

Originally Posted by Ketchie27

Thanks again. Think I am getting a little closer understanding with your help.

So the Astra 2D only broadcasts using Symbol Rate 22000 then? That would correspond with the other list of channels I found.

You say 5 Satelittes using 10 different beams from the same point in the sky? How do they fit?! As I have a good signal from 1 beam it doesn't mean I am actually pointed right for the other beams then? So as you said first, need the dish wiggling.

However, have gone through my receiver and the 80 channels I have from 19.2, 28.2, 28.5 sats are all on 27500, no signal at all on 22000. Does this make any sense?

Yes Astra 2D only uses 22000 5/6. However Astra 2C also uses 22000 5/6!

How do they fit? - The satellites are co-located in space and operate in a box a few miles across. Because of the distance they appear to be in the same place in space.

Your problem is best explained using these pages:

FlySat Astra 2A/2B/2C/2D @ 28.2° East Beams

FlySat Eurobird 1 @ 28.5° East Beams

Note the differences in coverage for the Astra 2's (although the 2C north beam map is wrong over the Canaries, and the 2D spotbeam situation is far more complicated than that official map suggests......)

You wont get the 2D beam simply because its very weak in Spain - some places need a very big dish in some parts of Spain - up to 2.4m in places! Due to the weakness of the received transmissions any slight movement of the dish or maladjustment of the lnb can wreck reception.

[Ketchie27]

Found it! Oh thank you so much for your help. Didn't understand it at all, think you have taught me GCSE level Basics of Satellites. The picture's not improved from how it was, breaks up during the day on all but BBC1, but at least I'm not a dead duck!

[Analoguesat]

Well done You could try adjusting the skew (twist) of the lnb a fraction at a time to see if it tweaks things up a bit, although it sounds like you need a bigger dish.