50mb new modems can they be done yet?

[zaneleggett]

As above really just wondering if they can be done?

[richooooo]

not yet mate

[ashbuster]

im on 20 meg
so when 50 meg cums out do i get upgraded to 50 meg and still pay same price?

[lee-ds]

No to both questions.

[nick999]

Originally Posted by ashbuster

im on 20 meg
so when 50 meg cums out do i get upgraded to 50 meg and still pay same price?

id like to know that aswell!, if u take out a phone line aswell u get it for the price 20mb is now , but is this for new customers only??

[Bad_Ad84]

50mb wont be getting "hacked" you will need 100% cloned modem (i.e. physical access to the modem you want to clone).

[Neosophist]

Originally Posted by Bad_Ad84

50mb wont be getting "hacked" you will need 100% cloned modem (i.e. physical access to the modem you want to clone).

If it ever gets done is a different kettle of fish, but heres a quick run down of how 50mb broadband is different from all of the other broadbands and why it can't be done cloned like the current set-up.

VM's 50mb broadband uses the new Docsis 3.0 specifications.

The old sysyem...

As most of us know, when a non 50mb modem connects to the VM network all VM check for is that the modems unique MAC address is in their database of paying customers and if so they send it a configuration file to tell it what speed it works at and all is hunky dorey.

It is possible to use software to listen to all the broadcasted traffic on your network and 'sniff' out other modems MAC addresses and some basic information about them.

So as we know, all that VM check is that the MAC address of the cable modem is registered with them as a paying customer. Normally the MAC address is not user-changable. However, by using modified firmware the MAC address of the modem can be changed to whatever you want, ie: a MAC address of a paying customer, effectivly cloning their modem.

Due to Network desgin you cannot have 2 devices with the same MAC address on the same portion of the network (UBR), but you can have them on different UBR's, hence cloners using a mac address from a different area.

Now in theory, VM should be able to see all of the cloned modems on their network, due to the modified firmware, most of them cannot be turned off, and tracing them to an exact location, while not impossible is time consuming and no doubt expensive.

If they killed the MAC address that has been cloned and changed the MAC address of the original subscribers modem to a new one, this would stop the cloned modem working. Well at least until the owner of the cloned modem changed its MAC address to one of another paying subscriber. And since MAC addresses can just be 'sniffed out.' It really is very difficult to stop this.

Now you can see the problem with the old system, and how difficult it is for VM to keep up with cloning, hence why people getting prosecuted for cloned modems is very rare.

Docsis 3.0 - The future
Now that we can see the inherant problems with the original system and how time consuming, costly it would be for VM to stay on-top of cloned modems lets take a look at how their new system works, and why at least in theory it should be much harder to clone.

When a 50mb+ (Docsis 3.0) modem boots up it sends its MAC address to VM just like the original modems.

And in theory the MAC address should still be sniffable to anyone on the same UBR due to it being broadcast over the network.

However, this MAC address alone isn't enough to allow a Docsis 3.0 modem network access, I still havn't fully read-up on the subject yet or read the Docsis 3.0 specification but there is extra authentication that goes on between VM and the modem that cannot be sniffed out without physical access to the modem.

Wether this extra information can just be dumped from the modem or is encrypted I do not know either, but even if it is dumpable.

Cloning a Docsis 3.0 modem requires phsyical access to the original modem.

The rest of this is just conjecture based on the above

Since this is much harder to do than trade just a MAC address there will be less cloned modems on the network as sellers won't be selling 'almost ready to go' modems on eBay where all a user has to do is put in a few letters and numbers.

This should make it a hell of a lot easier for VM to keep up with cloned modems.

I have no idea how they'll handle it but they should be able to tell which UBR the modem should be on, which one(s) it is on (if cloning is possible).

Since cloning these modems requires physical access VM may be able to do something to the original subsciber, the very least I can think of is to terminate their service for modding / reverse engineering / cloning their equipement.

I guess we'll see how it plays out. But in theory, if it stays secure, in a few years when everything is on Docsys 3.0 specs and 20mb is the 'slow service' cloned modems will not exist.

[Smurf]

So basically just enjoy what you have now and make the most of it.

[Bad_Ad84]

Believe me i know what im talking about.

docsis 3 uses BPI+ like docsis 2 and 1.1 had, however its now required by default and cant be disabled.

to pass bpi+ you need a mac address and its matching signed cert, which is stored in the modems nonvol.

to clone a modem you would need physical access to the modem to dump the chip.

the encryption isnt going to be broken as its RSA.

[AciidSn3ak3r]

Originally Posted by Neosophist

If it ever gets done is a different kettle of fish, but heres a quick run down of how 50mb broadband is different from all of the other broadbands and why it can't be done cloned like the current set-up.

VM's 50mb broadband uses the new Docsis 3.0 specifications.

The old sysyem...

As most of us know, when a non 50mb modem connects to the VM network all VM check for is that the modems unique MAC address is in their database of paying customers and if so they send it a configuration file to tell it what speed it works at and all is hunky dorey.

It is possible to use software to listen to all the broadcasted traffic on your network and 'sniff' out other modems MAC addresses and some basic information about them.

So as we know, all that VM check is that the MAC address of the cable modem is registered with them as a paying customer. Normally the MAC address is not user-changable. However, by using modified firmware the MAC address of the modem can be changed to whatever you want, ie: a MAC address of a paying customer, effectivly cloning their modem.

Due to Network desgin you cannot have 2 devices with the same MAC address on the same portion of the network (UBR), but you can have them on different UBR's, hence cloners using a mac address from a different area.

Now in theory, VM should be able to see all of the cloned modems on their network, due to the modified firmware, most of them cannot be turned off, and tracing them to an exact location, while not impossible is time consuming and no doubt expensive.

If they killed the MAC address that has been cloned and changed the MAC address of the original subscribers modem to a new one, this would stop the cloned modem working. Well at least until the owner of the cloned modem changed its MAC address to one of another paying subscriber. And since MAC addresses can just be 'sniffed out.' It really is very difficult to stop this.

Now you can see the problem with the old system, and how difficult it is for VM to keep up with cloning, hence why people getting prosecuted for cloned modems is very rare.

Docsis 3.0 - The future
Now that we can see the inherant problems with the original system and how time consuming, costly it would be for VM to stay on-top of cloned modems lets take a look at how their new system works, and why at least in theory it should be much harder to clone.

When a 50mb+ (Docsis 3.0) modem boots up it sends its MAC address to VM just like the original modems.

And in theory the MAC address should still be sniffable to anyone on the same UBR due to it being broadcast over the network.

However, this MAC address alone isn't enough to allow a Docsis 3.0 modem network access, I still havn't fully read-up on the subject yet or read the Docsis 3.0 specification but there is extra authentication that goes on between VM and the modem that cannot be sniffed out without physical access to the modem.

Wether this extra information can just be dumped from the modem or is encrypted I do not know either, but even if it is dumpable.

Cloning a Docsis 3.0 modem requires phsyical access to the original modem.

The rest of this is just conjecture based on the above

Since this is much harder to do than trade just a MAC address there will be less cloned modems on the network as sellers won't be selling 'almost ready to go' modems on eBay where all a user has to do is put in a few letters and numbers.

This should make it a hell of a lot easier for VM to keep up with cloned modems.

I have no idea how they'll handle it but they should be able to tell which UBR the modem should be on, which one(s) it is on (if cloning is possible).

Since cloning these modems requires physical access VM may be able to do something to the original subsciber, the very least I can think of is to terminate their service for modding / reverse engineering / cloning their equipement.

I guess we'll see how it plays out. But in theory, if it stays secure, in a few years when everything is on Docsys 3.0 specs and 20mb is the 'slow service' cloned modems will not exist.

Thanks for that description mate. Makes me understand it a little more.
Cheers