Life is over-need help - Techwatch Support Forums: Digital & Satellite TV, FTA, Cable, Computers, Mobile Phones, Apple and General Tech Forums

rwilson_ie · 25-02-09, 02:32 PM

Hi
Noob here - my situation is that I used to be big into tech toys etc - now, I have a 2.5 year old daughter, 4 month old son who thinks it's great to be awake at night and a PS3 that I bought on the launch and has been used twice ! So, as you can see, my time to enjoy tech is basically gone

So, wife is away from march 10th for 10 days - I have ordered a case and components to build a HTPC and I'd like to get NTHell on it via a DVB-C card. I have ordered the Techno Trend 1500 today, so hope to have it in the next few days.

Time is ticking and I just have a few questions ...

When i set up my media center PC, I will be using Vista - so, Vista Media Center has it's own EPG (am I right ?) Is progdvb a program for DVB-C cards which decodes the signal and it also acts as an EPG ? Can I get the Vista EPG to use the DVB-C card ?

Or if the above cannot be done, can Progdvb be used within Vista.

I'm basically looking for an integrated solution - i.e. only one remote control to control the Vista Media Center interface and so, control DVD playback, NTHell

I also saw that a transponder.ini file is needed and a bruteforce version has been created. Can anyone tell me if this will work for NTHell in Dublin, Ireland ?

Thanks in advance
Rob

Confused Stu · 25-02-09, 06:20 PM

Hi Rob. The bad news is that (from my personal experience) getting what you want up and running will be complex & annoying and you'll be hard pushed to get it all done in 10 days. The good news is you're in the right place for help, advice and all the info you can shake a stick at!

Just to clarify, the Technotrend card you've bought is a DVB-C, isn't it? If it's a DVB-T or DVB-S then we're dead before we start. I know you mention DVB-C elsewhere in your post, but I just wanted to clarify you'd got the right TechnoTrend 1500.

Vista Media Centre is one of the applications you can use to watch the channels being streamed into your PC via the cable. Other applications that do the same thing as are ProgDVB, DVBDream, DVB Viewer, and several others. The main thing that separates them is what they use to decrypt the incoming cable signal.

Some applications can use a software plug-in (usually vPlug) to decrypt the incoming signal. This is knows as a Softcam. DVBDream and ProgDVB fall into this category. All you need is to get vPlug installed and set up with the application and you'll be watching all the channels in no time.

Other applications cannot use a Softcam, and need an actual CAM and smartcard installed into a CI slot to do the decryting (just like your cable box does). These are known as Hardcam. Media Centre is a Hardcam app as it doesn't allow you to use vPlug at all. Adding a CAM, programmer and programmable smartcard (usually a Funcard4 or above) will obviously add to the expense and learning needed.

Once you've got your application installed, you need to tell it the frequencies to search to find cable channels on the input - this is where your bruteforce files come in as they cover nearly every frequency they could be on. Depending which application you're using to search and watch TV will determine the format the bruteforce file needs to be in (frequency, symbol rate or symbol rate, frequency, etc).

Media Centre presents another problem in that it doesn't support DVB-C. The way around this is to use a driver that tells Media Centre that the DVB-C signal it's receiving is actually a DVB-T (freeview) signal. Technotrend's drivers have never worked very well in Media Centre, and most people with Media Centre tend to use the more expensive FloppyDTV cards.

Most programs use the EPG provided in the signal (called in-stream) that gives you a Now and Next kind of deal. Vista Media Centre can use a downloaded 14 day guide form the internet instead, which works great as long as you don't have the TV-Pack (Vista add-on released to OEMs only and not available direct from MS) installed.

I personally found DVBDream using vPlug the easiest program to get up and running with for a Technotrend C1501 DVB-C (the 1500 is identical). However, it seemed to me to be more suited to controlling with mouse and keyboard than remote control (IMHO). It took me a long time, and a considerable investment, to get Vista Media Centre running as I wanted it but now it is it's glorious and works perfectly with just a MCE Remote.

Hope some of this is of some help.

rwilson_ie · 25-02-09, 10:17 PM

Not sure why you're called Confused Stu - you've given me a lot of info - much appreciated

Yes, I've ordered a Techno Trend DVB-C 1500 card.

Have I understood correctly - to get cable to work with Vista MCE, I need a CAM (what exactly is that ? I Googled it and it looks like a card which takes a card ? If so, what does the CAM fit into ??? ), programmer (is this an app?) and a programmable Smart card ? If so, then my DVB-C card is redundant if I am determined to go Vista MCE route ? (DVB-C card is only good if I use DVBDream, DVBViewer etc ?)

So, the setup I want - you have it up and running ? I saw your options on the EPG - did you get the Vista EPG to work with your cable setup ?

I had thought about another roundabout way of getting it but still haven't ironed out the ins and outs of Vista (have only received my case today - components and Vista o/s arriving in a few days). Anyway, thought abut using a "normal" TV card and using a Tira - so, the Tira would change the channel on my external Cable box (NTHell, Starview etc). But I'd need to see if VIsta is programmable in any way - would need to Vista to send a signal to the Tira remote to change the channel - not sure if I can do this in Vista ? Obviously if there are plug-in apps for Vista MCE (e.g. Skype), then there is some srt of development kit available ?

Anyway, if you could let me know if my DVB-C card is redundant and what I need to purchase to get cable workingwith Vista ?

Cheers
Rob

rwilson_ie · 25-02-09, 10:30 PM

Aha - I am getting a little more info.

So, the Programmer is hardware that allows you to program the Smartcard - Funcard4 is obviously the Smartcard itself.

The CAM is the hardware that the Smartcard goes into ?

And the CAM the fits into the likes of the following ?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/PCMCIA-CardBus-to-PCI-Interface-Adaptor-Card-RICOH-Chip_W0QQitemZ270346444851QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mputing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards?hash=ite m270346444851&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

And the CAM the fits into the likes of the following ?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/PCMCIA-CardBus-to-PCI-Interface-Adaptor-Card-RICOH-Chip_W0QQitemZ270346444851QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mputing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards?hash=ite m270346444851&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

If so, then that's the hardware setup - but a bit confused as to how Vista then picks up the signal/EPG ? I guess that's why a programmable setup is required ?

TIA
Rob

reddiesel · 25-02-09, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwilson_ie

Aha - I am getting a little more info.

So, the Programmer is hardware that allows you to program the Smartcard - Funcard4 is obviously the Smartcard itself.

The CAM is the hardware that the Smartcard goes into ?

And the CAM the fits into the likes of the following ?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/PCMCIA-CardBus-to-PCI-Interface-Adaptor-Card-RICOH-Chip_W0QQitemZ270346444851QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mputing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards?hash=ite m270346444851&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

And the CAM the fits into the likes of the following ?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/PCMCIA-CardBus-to-PCI-Interface-Adaptor-Card-RICOH-Chip_W0QQitemZ270346444851QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mputing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards?hash=ite m270346444851&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

If so, then that's the hardware setup - but a bit confused as to how Vista then picks up the signal/EPG ? I guess that's why a programmable setup is required ?

TIA
Rob

If you use v plug as stew said you dont need a cam and card, try DVB Dream.

rwilson_ie · 25-02-09, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddiesel

If you use v plug as stew said you dont need a cam and card, try DVB Dream.

But the thing is that I want to get Vista MCE.

Can DVBDream work as an app within MCE ???

Rob

Confused Stu · 26-02-09, 12:11 AM

You can't use DVB Dream within VMC (Vista Media Centre). Each application to control and watch your TV works independantly - you can only use it on it's own. The exception to that is vplug, which isn't an application but instead a plug-in that can be used inside applications that allow it, VMC does not allow it at all. No way to do it!

You're right in that the Hardcam route is smartcard (usually Funcard) into CAM (usually Icecrypt or Blue Zeta) into CI slot in your DVB-C card. The floppydtv comes with a CI slot built it, Technotrend have an add-on daughter card available (linky:TT-budget®CI) but I couldn't get it to work properly when I started out. The smartcard will need to be programmed with the correct files for your area and provider, so you need a smartcard programmer (Infinity USB is popular, or Duolabs CAS3+ does cards too). The CAM will also need to be running Joker 0.79 or 0.80 firmware - if you need to flash it yourself you'll need a CAM programmer (Duolabs CAS3+). Each of these things costs and requires reading and trial and error to get working properly. Even then, most people can't get a Technotrend to work under VMC - I know I couldn't.

By contrast, if you use an application that supports softcam, then all you need on your PC is a DVB-C card, and the Technotrend works perfectly. No Ci slot, no CAM, no card - the vplug does the job of all of these. Pretty much everyone on here started out running a softcam application first, then moved onto Hardcam when we got more reading and confidence under our belts. I started out using DVBDream, Willin's mentioned he started out using MyTheatre, etc.

It is entirely possible to get the output from your cable box running into an analogue input card in the PC and have VMC changing channels on the cable box using IR blasters. That's the "official" (i.e. legal) way to get cable running through your PC, and by all accounts works pretty well. Never used that myself (jumped into the deep end) - maybe someone with experience could chip in on this one?

To answer your other questions, I have an HTPC running VMC with two tuners (watch one channel and record another) using 2 FloppyDTV's, 2 Blue Zetas running Joker 0.80, and two Funcard4's running an AutoUpdating flash file. I've also got a 95% complete EPG thanks to running a redundant TT C-501 DVB-C. It's taken me 6 months of VERY hard work and learning to get to this state, and I've never dared tot up how much it's cost!

As for my name, it was completely honest when I joined up, I didn't have a clue! I asked a couple of very dumb questions at the start, but Willin, TwinTown, CafeRcaer and several others took pity on me and pointed me in the right direction. All the info you need is on this forum, I know that because I've had to look it all up!

Good luck mate.

rwilson_ie · 26-02-09, 02:15 PM

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight this time !

The FloppyDTV does same job as the TechnoTrend 1500 with CI add-on ? But for whatever reasons, the FloppyDTV is easier/better ?

You kept your TechnoTrend, just to get you EPG info ?

You mention that you couldn't get the TT CI to work "when you started out" ? So, it can/does work ?

A lot of your costs came from having the twin tuner setup ?

So, I guess I'll have to slow down and wait a while before I get a Vista MCE full solution.
I'll take your advice and use DVBDream with the TechnoTrend - okay, it won't be a Vista Integrated solution but just get the card working first.

So, for my second phase in a month or two - do you recommend I try get it working with TT 1500 + TT CI ? or get the FloppyDTV ?

P.S. If anyone has any info on how I can get the Vista Channel change to work the IR blaster, it'd be much appreciated ?

Thanks again, Confused (not any more!) Stu

Rob

Bad_Ad84 · 26-02-09, 02:27 PM

im using a 1500, id recommend the floppydtv for what you are doing... theres just alot of additional cost involved (cams, card programming etc)

rwilson_ie · 26-02-09, 02:47 PM

Another question !

I was thinking about trying to get the Vista EPG / channel change, to change the channel on the cable Box via IR blaster.

But I see that there is a MS remote for MCE, which can control a cable box. Have I understood this correctly -

If I get one of these remotes, when I use the up/down/vol buttons etc, it will control the HTPC ? But when I used the channel up/down, it will control the Cable Box ?

TIA
Rob

25-02-09, 02:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
rwilson_ie Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Life is over-need help Hi Noob here - my situation is that I used to be big into tech toys etc - now, I have a 2.5 year old daughter, 4 month old son who thinks it's great to be awake at night and a PS3 that I bought on the launch and has been used twice ! So, as you can see, my time to enjoy tech is basically gone So, wife is away from march 10th for 10 days - I have ordered a case and components to build a HTPC and I'd like to get NTHell on it via a DVB-C card. I have ordered the Techno Trend 1500 today, so hope to have it in the next few days. Time is ticking and I just have a few questions ... When i set up my media center PC, I will be using Vista - so, Vista Media Center has it's own EPG (am I right ?) Is progdvb a program for DVB-C cards which decodes the signal and it also acts as an EPG ? Can I get the Vista EPG to use the DVB-C card ? Or if the above cannot be done, can Progdvb be used within Vista. I'm basically looking for an integrated solution - i.e. only one remote control to control the Vista Media Center interface and so, control DVD playback, NTHell I also saw that a transponder.ini file is needed and a bruteforce version has been created. Can anyone tell me if this will work for NTHell in Dublin, Ireland ? Thanks in advance Rob

25-02-09, 06:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
Confused Stu Confused but learning Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 310 Thanks: 47 Thanked 89 Times in 71 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help Hi Rob. The bad news is that (from my personal experience) getting what you want up and running will be complex & annoying and you'll be hard pushed to get it all done in 10 days. The good news is you're in the right place for help, advice and all the info you can shake a stick at! Just to clarify, the Technotrend card you've bought is a DVB-C, isn't it? If it's a DVB-T or DVB-S then we're dead before we start. I know you mention DVB-C elsewhere in your post, but I just wanted to clarify you'd got the right TechnoTrend 1500. Vista Media Centre is one of the applications you can use to watch the channels being streamed into your PC via the cable. Other applications that do the same thing as are ProgDVB, DVBDream, DVB Viewer, and several others. The main thing that separates them is what they use to decrypt the incoming cable signal. Some applications can use a software plug-in (usually vPlug) to decrypt the incoming signal. This is knows as a Softcam. DVBDream and ProgDVB fall into this category. All you need is to get vPlug installed and set up with the application and you'll be watching all the channels in no time. Other applications cannot use a Softcam, and need an actual CAM and smartcard installed into a CI slot to do the decryting (just like your cable box does). These are known as Hardcam. Media Centre is a Hardcam app as it doesn't allow you to use vPlug at all. Adding a CAM, programmer and programmable smartcard (usually a Funcard4 or above) will obviously add to the expense and learning needed. Once you've got your application installed, you need to tell it the frequencies to search to find cable channels on the input - this is where your bruteforce files come in as they cover nearly every frequency they could be on. Depending which application you're using to search and watch TV will determine the format the bruteforce file needs to be in (frequency, symbol rate or symbol rate, frequency, etc). Media Centre presents another problem in that it doesn't support DVB-C. The way around this is to use a driver that tells Media Centre that the DVB-C signal it's receiving is actually a DVB-T (freeview) signal. Technotrend's drivers have never worked very well in Media Centre, and most people with Media Centre tend to use the more expensive FloppyDTV cards. Most programs use the EPG provided in the signal (called in-stream) that gives you a Now and Next kind of deal. Vista Media Centre can use a downloaded 14 day guide form the internet instead, which works great as long as you don't have the TV-Pack (Vista add-on released to OEMs only and not available direct from MS) installed. I personally found DVBDream using vPlug the easiest program to get up and running with for a Technotrend C1501 DVB-C (the 1500 is identical). However, it seemed to me to be more suited to controlling with mouse and keyboard than remote control (IMHO). It took me a long time, and a considerable investment, to get Vista Media Centre running as I wanted it but now it is it's glorious and works perfectly with just a MCE Remote. Hope some of this is of some help. __________________ Why can't we use paid subscription cards in our DVB-C PCs?

25-02-09, 10:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
rwilson_ie Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help Not sure why you're called Confused Stu - you've given me a lot of info - much appreciated Yes, I've ordered a Techno Trend DVB-C 1500 card. Have I understood correctly - to get cable to work with Vista MCE, I need a CAM (what exactly is that ? I Googled it and it looks like a card which takes a card ? If so, what does the CAM fit into ??? ), programmer (is this an app?) and a programmable Smart card ? If so, then my DVB-C card is redundant if I am determined to go Vista MCE route ? (DVB-C card is only good if I use DVBDream, DVBViewer etc ?) So, the setup I want - you have it up and running ? I saw your options on the EPG - did you get the Vista EPG to work with your cable setup ? I had thought about another roundabout way of getting it but still haven't ironed out the ins and outs of Vista (have only received my case today - components and Vista o/s arriving in a few days). Anyway, thought abut using a "normal" TV card and using a Tira - so, the Tira would change the channel on my external Cable box (NTHell, Starview etc). But I'd need to see if VIsta is programmable in any way - would need to Vista to send a signal to the Tira remote to change the channel - not sure if I can do this in Vista ? Obviously if there are plug-in apps for Vista MCE (e.g. Skype), then there is some srt of development kit available ? Anyway, if you could let me know if my DVB-C card is redundant and what I need to purchase to get cable workingwith Vista ? Cheers Rob

25-02-09, 10:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
rwilson_ie Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help Aha - I am getting a little more info. So, the Programmer is hardware that allows you to program the Smartcard - Funcard4 is obviously the Smartcard itself. The CAM is the hardware that the Smartcard goes into ? And the CAM the fits into the likes of the following ? http://cgi.ebay.ie/PCMCIA-CardBus-to-PCI-Interface-Adaptor-Card-RICOH-Chip_W0QQitemZ270346444851QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mputing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards?hash=ite m270346444851&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1301\|66%3A2\|65%3A12\|39%3A1\|240%3A1318 And the CAM the fits into the likes of the following ? http://cgi.ebay.ie/PCMCIA-CardBus-to-PCI-Interface-Adaptor-Card-RICOH-Chip_W0QQitemZ270346444851QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mputing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards?hash=ite m270346444851&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1301\|66%3A2\|65%3A12\|39%3A1\|240%3A1318 If so, then that's the hardware setup - but a bit confused as to how Vista then picks up the signal/EPG ? I guess that's why a programmable setup is required ? TIA Rob Last edited by rwilson_ie; 25-02-09 at 10:36 PM.

26-02-09, 12:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
Confused Stu Confused but learning Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 310 Thanks: 47 Thanked 89 Times in 71 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help You can't use DVB Dream within VMC (Vista Media Centre). Each application to control and watch your TV works independantly - you can only use it on it's own. The exception to that is vplug, which isn't an application but instead a plug-in that can be used inside applications that allow it, VMC does not allow it at all. No way to do it! You're right in that the Hardcam route is smartcard (usually Funcard) into CAM (usually Icecrypt or Blue Zeta) into CI slot in your DVB-C card. The floppydtv comes with a CI slot built it, Technotrend have an add-on daughter card available (linky:TT-budget®CI) but I couldn't get it to work properly when I started out. The smartcard will need to be programmed with the correct files for your area and provider, so you need a smartcard programmer (Infinity USB is popular, or Duolabs CAS3+ does cards too). The CAM will also need to be running Joker 0.79 or 0.80 firmware - if you need to flash it yourself you'll need a CAM programmer (Duolabs CAS3+). Each of these things costs and requires reading and trial and error to get working properly. Even then, most people can't get a Technotrend to work under VMC - I know I couldn't. By contrast, if you use an application that supports softcam, then all you need on your PC is a DVB-C card, and the Technotrend works perfectly. No Ci slot, no CAM, no card - the vplug does the job of all of these. Pretty much everyone on here started out running a softcam application first, then moved onto Hardcam when we got more reading and confidence under our belts. I started out using DVBDream, Willin's mentioned he started out using MyTheatre, etc. It is entirely possible to get the output from your cable box running into an analogue input card in the PC and have VMC changing channels on the cable box using IR blasters. That's the "official" (i.e. legal) way to get cable running through your PC, and by all accounts works pretty well. Never used that myself (jumped into the deep end) - maybe someone with experience could chip in on this one? To answer your other questions, I have an HTPC running VMC with two tuners (watch one channel and record another) using 2 FloppyDTV's, 2 Blue Zetas running Joker 0.80, and two Funcard4's running an AutoUpdating flash file. I've also got a 95% complete EPG thanks to running a redundant TT C-501 DVB-C. It's taken me 6 months of VERY hard work and learning to get to this state, and I've never dared tot up how much it's cost! As for my name, it was completely honest when I joined up, I didn't have a clue! I asked a couple of very dumb questions at the start, but Willin, TwinTown, CafeRcaer and several others took pity on me and pointed me in the right direction. All the info you need is on this forum, I know that because I've had to look it all up! Good luck mate. __________________ Why can't we use paid subscription cards in our DVB-C PCs? Last edited by Confused Stu; 26-02-09 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Added link to TT CI card

26-02-09, 02:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
rwilson_ie Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help Okay, let me see if I've got this straight this time ! The FloppyDTV does same job as the TechnoTrend 1500 with CI add-on ? But for whatever reasons, the FloppyDTV is easier/better ? You kept your TechnoTrend, just to get you EPG info ? You mention that you couldn't get the TT CI to work "when you started out" ? So, it can/does work ? A lot of your costs came from having the twin tuner setup ? So, I guess I'll have to slow down and wait a while before I get a Vista MCE full solution. I'll take your advice and use DVBDream with the TechnoTrend - okay, it won't be a Vista Integrated solution but just get the card working first. So, for my second phase in a month or two - do you recommend I try get it working with TT 1500 + TT CI ? or get the FloppyDTV ? P.S. If anyone has any info on how I can get the Vista Channel change to work the IR blaster, it'd be much appreciated ? Thanks again, Confused (not any more!) Stu Rob

26-02-09, 02:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bad_Ad84 Technology Forums Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: sbhacker.net Posts: 974 Thanks: 2 Thanked 251 Times in 173 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help im using a 1500, id recommend the floppydtv for what you are doing... theres just alot of additional cost involved (cams, card programming etc)

26-02-09, 02:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
rwilson_ie Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Life is over-need help Another question ! I was thinking about trying to get the Vista EPG / channel change, to change the channel on the cable Box via IR blaster. But I see that there is a MS remote for MCE, which can control a cable box. Have I understood this correctly - If I get one of these remotes, when I use the up/down/vol buttons etc, it will control the HTPC ? But when I used the channel up/down, it will control the Cable Box ? TIA Rob

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Need a break from adult life?	fj1200	The Lounge	35	12-06-08 12:20 AM
Overclocked CPU's, estimated life??? say E6400 at 3ghz?	Jaffar21	PC Hardware	1	28-03-07 02:49 PM