Smartcard Security Nagra3 ETC.. - Techwatch Support Forums: Digital & Satellite TV, FTA, Cable, Computers, Mobile Phones, Apple and General Tech Forums

volcanic · 27-10-09, 01:37 AM

Thought it would be interesting to get a thread going on the security of smart cards, I am not the most knowledgeable of people on this subject and would like to learn more.
what i do know is there are standards to the way these cards are designed physically and how they work etc, such as: The ISO-7816 standard for integrated circuit cards with contacts, which go from ISO-7816-1 through to ISO-7816-6 and so on.
Now onto nagra3, Does nagra3 adhere to these standards? i mean surely it does right? If the card is the same physically then its just software changes on the card? new encryption algorithm?!. When this switchover happens VM are going to keep the same old boxes? like my samsung 2110c for example or will we get new hardware also? Im guessing we use the same STB'S?
So technically this would mean that VM "update" the software on whicheva chip or "chips" on the board do the decoding via a msg to the box?? Has this part of the board been identified? what language are these "updates" written in? What language is the software contained on the Smartcards written in? JAVA Is it not just a case of Intercepting the message "after" it has been decoded on-board sumwhere?. If this "before and after" decoding message can be retrieved does that mean the algorithm can then be broken?
And also, lets go back to nagra2 etc, how exactly does using nagraedit and changing a few bits of information equate to decoding the message? does the main problem lie in unlocking (unlooping) the cards?.. i think ive said enought now but lastly a few more questions we can think of. what languages are used for writing software on smartcards? java? any more? any language goes? when virgin sends me my nagra3 card they have already written my information on the card or will the box do this? if so can we not sumhow use the boxes to read/write to our cards? lets research? im sorry if this is in the wrong section or i am jus chatting nonsense lol but im very interested in this stuff and would like to learn more
REGARDS

volcanic · 27-10-09, 01:42 AM

Im sorry if parts dont make sense people, feel free to ask and i can clarify

volcanic · 27-10-09, 03:46 AM

possible to intercept the firmware upgrade to the boxes when it happens?

Nivida · 27-10-09, 09:08 AM

im not 100% sure m8, but its the cards that do all the work & not the boxes,, so............. if that helps abit ....lol

27-10-09, 01:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
volcanic Easily Inspired Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Smartcard Security Nagra3 ETC.. Thought it would be interesting to get a thread going on the security of smart cards, I am not the most knowledgeable of people on this subject and would like to learn more. what i do know is there are standards to the way these cards are designed physically and how they work etc, such as: The ISO-7816 standard for integrated circuit cards with contacts, which go from ISO-7816-1 through to ISO-7816-6 and so on. Now onto nagra3, Does nagra3 adhere to these standards? i mean surely it does right? If the card is the same physically then its just software changes on the card? new encryption algorithm?!. When this switchover happens VM are going to keep the same old boxes? like my samsung 2110c for example or will we get new hardware also? Im guessing we use the same STB'S? So technically this would mean that VM "update" the software on whicheva chip or "chips" on the board do the decoding via a msg to the box?? Has this part of the board been identified? what language are these "updates" written in? What language is the software contained on the Smartcards written in? JAVA Is it not just a case of Intercepting the message "after" it has been decoded on-board sumwhere?. If this "before and after" decoding message can be retrieved does that mean the algorithm can then be broken? And also, lets go back to nagra2 etc, how exactly does using nagraedit and changing a few bits of information equate to decoding the message? does the main problem lie in unlocking (unlooping) the cards?.. i think ive said enought now but lastly a few more questions we can think of. what languages are used for writing software on smartcards? java? any more? any language goes? when virgin sends me my nagra3 card they have already written my information on the card or will the box do this? if so can we not sumhow use the boxes to read/write to our cards? lets research? im sorry if this is in the wrong section or i am jus chatting nonsense lol but im very interested in this stuff and would like to learn more REGARDS __________________ All men who have achieved great things have been great dreamers. Last edited by volcanic; 27-10-09 at 01:42 AM.

27-10-09, 01:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
volcanic Easily Inspired Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Smartcard Security Nagra3 ETC.. Im sorry if parts dont make sense people, feel free to ask and i can clarify __________________ All men who have achieved great things have been great dreamers.

27-10-09, 03:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
volcanic Easily Inspired Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Smartcard Security Nagra3 ETC.. possible to intercept the firmware upgrade to the boxes when it happens? __________________ All men who have achieved great things have been great dreamers.

27-10-09, 09:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Nivida Technology Forums Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 454 Thanks: 13 Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Smartcard Security Nagra3 ETC.. im not 100% sure m8, but its the cards that do all the work & not the boxes,, so............. if that helps abit ....lol

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