Satellite CS Legality discussion

[lincsat]

Originally Posted by TheCoder

By the very fact that you need to crack an algorithm and need a set of keys in order to pair a card for cardsharing you are circumventing security.

I've already legally checked this. Cardsharing, is illegal. Full stop !

By cardsharing, even in your own home, you are depriving the provider of the income from having to lease a 2nd box/card. Quite simply, its theft of service. It doesn't really matter how you justify it, its still illegal.

Whether you'd actually be prosecuted is a different kettle of fish entirely. I suspect it would be very unlikely that anyone would actually face prosecution in such a circumstance but it COULD happen and, I'd guess you'd lose all your equipment (incl computers etc) whilst they checked whether you were sharing further affield.

Well I'm not a lawyer and I have not taken legal advice but as I see it, there is no difference between moving your subscription card from box to box, than using a CS system to share the card. Yes Sky do offer multi-room which you would not be subscribing to, but they also offer the TV link which does exactly the same job.

As for cracking an algorithm, I just put my Viaccess porn card in the box, didn't crack anything or pair the card, no different than using an external card reader, in fact one of my boxes doesn't have a working card reader, so would only work with a networked external card reader - AKA Card-share.

Sky may not like it, but they are not the law, if they were, there would be no motorised satellites, no freesat, no cable, no freeview etc etc.

I've seen 2 different lawyers give opposing opinions on the same specific issue, I doubt you would get a consensus on something with so many permutations as card-share, but am welcoming the discussion - perhaps next we could get into the technical aspects as this is a technical forum.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by lincsat

Yes Sky do offer multi-room which you would not be subscribing to, but they also offer the TV link which does exactly the same job.

Not exactly, a TV link will only let you watch what is on the main box, and controll it from another room. Multiroom lets you watch 2 differant channels in differant rooms as does c/s

[charlie1966]

It seems reasonable that cs is illegal though the chances of prosecution is low if it is for your own use from start to finish or is that server receiver to second and subsequent receivers.

Is the discussion of the technology illegal though? Unlikely and isn't that all that is going to be allowed.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by charlie1966

It seems reasonable that cs is illegal though the chances of prosecution is low if it is for your own use from start to finish or is that server receiver to second and subsequent receivers.

Is the discussion of the technology illegal though? Unlikely and isn't that all that is going to be allowed.

The discussion of the technology isn't illegal. Teaching people how to do it is though.

[Analoguesat]

Originally Posted by Rick

The discussion of the technology isn't illegal. Teaching people how to do it is though.

Yup - and remember if someone posts details of how to evade paying for a pay tv service - its that person will be in court when the security goons come to the admins office with their warrants demanding ip addresses off the server logs

[charlie1966]

Originally Posted by Rick

The discussion of the technology isn't illegal. Teaching people how to do it is though.

That line is almost impossible to see.

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by Rick

The discussion of the technology isn't illegal. Teaching people how to do it is though.

From what I remember of the wording of the of the particular legislation giving any help or encouragement whatsoever to aid in theft of service is in itself considered to be same crime as the actual theft. It is, in effect conspiracy to defraud.

Saying that though, all of the previous talk on cable hacking has effectively been illegal yet the forums are still here.........

Is that simply because of a lack of resolve on VM's part or is it perhaps that they dont want the hassle of dealing with a potential legal minefield.

Remember though, Novice Angel went to jail for his guide !

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by lincsat

Well I'm not a lawyer and I have not taken legal advice but as I see it, there is no difference between moving your subscription card from box to box, than using a CS system to share the card. Yes Sky do offer multi-room which you would not be subscribing to, but they also offer the TV link which does exactly the same job.

Of course there is a difference. You have one subscription card which allows you to view one channel at one time (two on a multi-tuner box). Sky/VM are authorising you to use that one card on that one piece of equipment.

By cardsharing you are potentially opening more channels than you are entitled to. (You DO NOT have the right to view all your subscribed channels at the same time). In order to cardshare you MUST cirvumvent the pairing scheme put into place by the operator. That means you ARE using a hack, whether you know about it or not.

As for cracking an algorithm, I just put my Viaccess porn card in the box, didn't crack anything or pair the card, no different than using an external card reader, in fact one of my boxes doesn't have a working card reader, so would only work with a networked external card reader - AKA Card-share.

The fact your using a cracking device (whether it be hardware or software) without understanding how it works doesn't absolve you from the legalities of its use.

Sky may not like it, but they are not the law, if they were, there would be no motorised satellites, no freesat, no cable, no freeview etc etc.

Agreed, but they do tie stuff up pretty tightly as far as their system and usage of that system is concerned. Sky cantt prevent competition from competing systems but they can pretty thouroughly dictate how you are allowed to use their system.

I've seen 2 different lawyers give opposing opinions on the same specific issue, I doubt you would get a consensus on something with so many permutations as card-share, but am welcoming the discussion - perhaps next we could get into the technical aspects as this is a technical forum.

Perhaps, but lawyers/solicitors have different fields. You need to find lawyers that are competent in this particular field where I would imagine you will find the consensus to be much higher. Certainly, the information i've been given by specialists (and yes, they agree) is that the whole concept of cardsharing is very, very legally dubious to the point where they all expect a successful prosecution would be fairly easy. It would of course take a test case to confirm this (lawyers are always loathe to totally commit without recourse to previous case history)

[nanochickin]

There is no law on anybody teaching people how to use CS, just as there is no law in buying such equipment to allow you to do so

It only becomes illegal once you start to open encrypted services without the use of the card



Nano

[Yorks]

Originally Posted by charlie1966

Is the discussion of the technology illegal though? Unlikely and isn't that all that is going to be allowed.

'Hypothetical' discussion soon deteriorates into 'actual' direct questions.... and then the feeding frenzy ensues, fuelled by the use of search engines.

I don't think that there can be any grey areas. Moderation would be very difficult.

Some people enjoy the hobby. Some people want free tv. Which group does the forum want to represent?