Satellite CS Legality discussion

[SunRise]

If I buy a car ... can I take 2 home as I've payed for 1 so entitled to drive 'a car' and I can clearly only drive one at a time...

EDIT: Thinking about it:

If I buy one of your EuroVox's LincSat can I have two as I've payed for one so entitled to have 'a EuroVox' by your own logic.

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by nanochickin

There is no law on anybody teaching people how to use CS, just as there is no law in buying such equipment to allow you to do so

Its actually illegal to own or sell any device to be used solely to facilitate a theft of service. Its also illegal to discuss the technical workings of such a device such that someone else may build one from the knowledge gained.

Look at the relevant laws. I think its part of the Copyright & Patents Act but I cant remember the exact part. You'll know it when you find it though.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by nanochickin

There is no law on anybody teaching people how to use CS, just as there is no law in buying such equipment to allow you to do so

It only becomes illegal once you start to open encrypted services without the use of the card



Nano

I suppose if you really want to get down to it then no I suppose you are right. But as soon as the person you have taught goes and uses that information illegally you become just as guilty. Fine for people you know if you want to take the risk, but for an open forum ? Personally I would rather not take the chance.

[nanochickin]

CS is a very grey area indeed so pointed out by a few people here

Its actually illegal to own or sell any device to be used solely to facilitate a theft of service. Its also illegal to discuss the technical workings of such a device such that someone else may build one from the knowledge gained.

This is exactly the case with the Eurovox & any other cable boxes, so all in all were all as bad as each other, its just the method of delivery which is different.

As with cable, the authorities aren't interested in the little tadpoles, they are only interested in the big fish, like commercial card servers etc etc.

I don't think Sky would give a monkies if anybody shared their card with another receiver in their house as they are still getting a sub from the said person

Now if that person started doing like that guy did in Liverpool tehn yes you could say they would get a bit narked and send in the big boys

There is a very thin line from where owning a CS capable receiver becomes illegal or not

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by Rick

I suppose if you really want to get down to it then no I suppose you are right. But as soon as the person you have taught goes and uses that information illegally you become just as guilty. Fine for people you know if you want to take the risk, but for an open forum ? Personally I would rather not take the chance.

People may find it suprising but the right to free and unrestricted speech really doesn't exist anymore. When politicians/lawyers etc talk about "free speech" in the UK today what they really mean is you can talk about anyting as long as you remain WITHIN the legislative framework.

Take it to the extreme.

Lets say we all start discussing ways of blowing up the houses of parliament. Perhaps we start talking about technical aspects of detonators and timers etc or where to aquire Semtex.

Do you think such a discussion would be legal ?

Do you even think this post wont trigger several keyword alarms by various agencies ?

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by nanochickin

This is exactly the case with the Eurovox & any other cable boxes, so all in all were all as bad as each other, its just the method of delivery which is different.

Very true, from a legal standpoint CS is no worse than what people are already doing. You just have to remember that its also no better !

As with cable, the authorities aren't interested in the little tadpoles, they are only interested in the big fish, like commercial card servers etc etc.

Agreed to a point. If your too blatent or stick out like a sore thumb though, they may be inclined to bite. There will also come some point at which the providers will start to act against the small fish. Look at some of the stuff that happened in the US with individuals getting legal demands for stupid amounts of compensation from the providers. Dont imagine it couldn't happen here.

I don't think Sky would give a monkies if anybody shared their card with another receiver in their house as they are still getting a sub from the said person

I'd be inclined to agree. But if Sky somehow find out what you are doing they may just take some action.

There is a very thin line from where owning a CS capable receiver becomes illegal or not

Its not really that thin. If you think you are doing something that is legally "ambiguous" then chances are you've already broken the law !

[charlie1966]

As I see it from the discussion so far is that even teaching someone how to card share is illegal but here may be where the line blurs. In a discussion on the forum the information is unlikely to come from any one person. So if you learn how to CS you have had to put that information together yourself. Here is the question, are all those who provided a little piece of info responsible? Is the site responsible? Instinct would say that neither are but I may be wrong.

One think to note is that tech will always advance way faster than law and I am not sure that they have caught up with it in this instance. We are unlikely to find out as if the likes of sky were to bring someone to court over CS they would win, not because they are right but because they have more expensive lawyers.

One more question has just occurred to me, if it is all so illegal how come the equipment is available??????

[nanochickin]

I'd be inclined to agree. But if Sky somehow find out what you are doing they may just take some action.

By past experience of people i know unless its a major operation Sky usually just switch off the card, send out a few threatening letters and then just leave it at that

There comes a point where even Sky know that sometimes it would cost more than any agin they would get from it. A harsh warning usually surfices, although they have been known to make an example of people just for the hell of it

One more question has just occurred to me, if it is all so illegal how come the equipment is available??????

Ironically it was one of the German cable & sat providers who the cable guys probably already know about who are ultimately responsible for this. As far as i am aware it mostly started with the use of Kirch Medias dBox

Kirch Medias was superceded by Premiere and then ultimately Sky Germany

[Rick]

Originally Posted by TheCoder

People may find it suprising but the right to free and unrestricted speech really doesn't exist anymore. When politicians/lawyers etc talk about "free speech" in the UK today what they really mean is you can talk about anyting as long as you remain WITHIN the legislative framework.

Take it to the extreme.

Lets say we all start discussing ways of blowing up the houses of parliament. Perhaps we start talking about technical aspects of detonators and timers etc or where to aquire Semtex.

Do you think such a discussion would be legal ?

Do you even think this post wont trigger several keyword alarms by various agencies ?

I take your point, not sure I agree entirely but it has given me something to think about. To take that to another example, growing cannabis is illegal (in the UK atleast) yet it is perfectly legal to buy a book telling you how do do it, and to buy the equipment to do it.

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by charlie1966

Here is the question, are all those who provided a little piece of info responsible? Is the site responsible? Instinct would say that neither are but I may be wrong.

Its a bit of a tough one but for a certainty, the site itself could be held legally responsible simply for having all the information in one place.

I imagine what would happen in that particular case would be that the site receives a legal notice asking for particular information to be removed or legal proceedings will be initiated. As long as the site complies then that may be the end of the matter.

For individuals contributing small parts then I think your into a very grey area indeed. Providing tutorials etc is obviously fairly clear cut (as we remember from Novice Angel) but where information comes from a group I suspect you would find that only certain key members within that group would be chased. As we all know information, even within a group, tends to flow from only a few key members.