Satellite CS Legality discussion

[lincsat]

Lets have a discussion about the lagalities of CS, you can also post rumours in here but please state that it's a rumour.

My understanding is that CS for your own use is perfectly legal. That means sharing a service that you subscribe to around your own home or other location for your own use. That would also include free services that you may pay for indirectly, Freesat from Sky for example.

This may breach the T&C of certain operators, but that would not make it illegal. These days, the T&C are seldom sent to new Subscribers and with no signature being required, there may not be a reasonable assumption that the subscriber has even seen them.

[Analoguesat]

No it might not just be about Sky but lets be blunt. Most folk on this forum are not the slightest bit interested in card sharing to watch Slovakian or Arabic TV. They want free TV from UK based pay tv providers, especially the cable lads who have had it far too easy for far too long with the wretchedly poor encryptions VM have used..

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Rick

Just a couple of points on the Legalitles of Card Sharing.

Sharing a subscription card, which has no Terms of Use attached (alot of the porn cards etc are like this) It is quite acceptable to use c/s to view the card in multiple recievers they you also own, as long as only one reciever accesses the card at any one time. Even if the recievers are in differant locations i.e a holiday home.

Something like Sky UK on the other hand is differant. Their terms of use stipulate that you must use a multiroom subscription with their equipment.



While using c/s for Sky or indeed Virgin Multiroom within your house is not Criminal, as there is no Law to stop you, it is against the companies respective terms of use which you must have agreed to to get a card, so would leave you open to Civil proceedings.

Atleast this is the way I understand it, I am not a lawyer, but I have heard legal opinions on this before.

OK, so I've pasted in my reply about this in the other thread. As I say, c/sing your own sky/vm card around your own home is not illegal, so you can't be prosecuted for it. It does break your contract with those companies which could end up with civil proceedings against you, where you would most likely be made to pay damages and legal costs.

Sharing to another property however is a differant matter I believe, Neither company offers a multi house contract.

If you have a subscription card from another provider that does not have the same terms of use attached then c/s between your own recievers is perfectly legal.

Once you go sharing beyond your own recievers however, it's illegal no matter who's card you sharing. And if you start charging for people for shares, you become very illegal.

Thats the legalities of cardsharing as I know it.

[lincsat]

I would really like to see a proper legal opinion on sharing of free channels that are only encrypted for regional copyright reasons, eg Freesat from Sky.

Basically, would it be illegal to share a free channel with it's target area, or even outside it's target area but within the EU? In the UK that would include some ITV regions, C4 HD, Fiver, Five USA etc, then channels like RTE or other EU Public Service channels.

Sky don't make a profit from the cards, they just charge the actual cost of the card. There was even rumour around the Freesat community that CS may be officially used to open encrypted free channels on a Freesat box.

[Rick]

If all you were doing was sharing a FTV card to your holiday home in spain, Im not sure it would be illegal, and even if it was I very much doubt sky would really give two hoots about it. Then again, for the cost of a second hand reciever and a second FTV card, why would anyone bother going to the trouble and expense ?

If your sharing them to others outside of the reigonal zones then yes it's illegal, it breaks international copyright.

[TheCoder]

CS in any way shape or form is illegal, simple as that.

Admittedly the laws are a bit vague and are really targetted at the sellers of equipment but the implications are relatively clear. If you use any device to circumvent any form of network security to view TV then you automatically commit various copyright offences. There's no distinction made between full on hacking and CS. As far as the offence is concerned its one and the same thing.

[Rick]

One thing I will add, is there isn't a legal use for c/s that justifies the cost and time of A) setting it up and B) keeping it running.

[lincsat]

Originally Posted by Rick

One thing I will add, is there isn't a legal use for c/s that justifies the cost and time of A) setting it up and B) keeping it running.

That I dis-agree with. I have a porn card shared from 1 to 2 other boxes in my house. No cost and very little time involved

Originally Posted by TheCoder

CS in any way shape or form is illegal, simple as that.

Admittedly the laws are a bit vague and are really targetted at the sellers of equipment but the implications are relatively clear. If you use any device to circumvent any form of network security to view TV then you automatically commit various copyright offences. There's no distinction made between full on hacking and CS. As far as the offence is concerned its one and the same thing.

But then C/S is not circumventing security, you are still using a subscribed card, just remote from the box, like the old card-splitters or external card reader. There may be other issues going outside of your household, but I'm pretty sure that keeping it within your home would be proven legal, should any operator risk a test case.

[TheCoder]

Originally Posted by lincsat

But then C/S is not circumventing security, you are still using a subscribed card, just remote from the box, like the old card-splitters or external card reader. There may be other issues going outside of your household, but I'm pretty sure that keeping it within your home would be proven legal, should any operator risk a test case.

By the very fact that you need to crack an algorithm and need a set of keys in order to pair a card for cardsharing you are circumventing security.

I've already legally checked this. Cardsharing, is illegal. Full stop !

By cardsharing, even in your own home, you are depriving the provider of the income from having to lease a 2nd box/card. Quite simply, its theft of service. It doesn't really matter how you justify it, its still illegal.

Whether you'd actually be prosecuted is a different kettle of fish entirely. I suspect it would be very unlikely that anyone would actually face prosecution in such a circumstance but it COULD happen and, I'd guess you'd lose all your equipment (incl computers etc) whilst they checked whether you were sharing further affield.

[nanochickin]

CS for your own use is perfectly legal

Utter coblers

Have you checked out the T & Cs of a Sky Contract? No i didn't think so

When you purchase any card or sign up to a provider they give you one card for use in one receiver, end of story.

Even if its in use in your own house its theft as you are illegally opening that encrypted stream on the other box without the card. If it was the way you are stating it why do Sky charge you an extra £10 a month for multiroom instead of giving it you for nothing?

If this forum gets a CS section it will be then end of it. I've seen happen too many times before. If you thought it was a pain to moderate it the last time Virgin altered the encryption you haven't seen anything yet.

When Virgin is completely N3 you are going to probably lose every single decent member who knows anything about sat because they are going to get p**sed off trawling through all the How do i set up my Dreambox and give me free TV threads.

Nobody here that is asking about CS is even slightly interested in foreign TV, All they wan't is what they are used to for as little outlay in costs as possible. Seasoned sat users wouldn't bother with a CS section on here as they alraedy know where to find the info if they want it



Nano