bigger dish .. no signal

Discussion in 'Satellite TV' started by zeroruss, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    hi. i may have regitered with this forum ages ago but ive not had any problems with my setup till now so ive had no need for help.
    this may sound like a idiotic question .. but ive been using 2x seperate dishes to recieve 4x satellites. i replaced a std 60cm dish with a 1mtr dish and fitted 3x 4-way lnb,s to recieve 13* 19* and sky 28*. the old dish i fitted a spare dual output lnb to recieve Eutelsat 16*. things have been fine for ages.
    im just having a fad and was watching some pop chnls on 16* [spare 60cm dish] but the slightest bit of bad weather the sig drops out. today ive replaced the dish with a 1mtr dish .. just to fix this problem.

    now my question is this. is it possible that by fitting a bigger dish and improving the signals from 13* and 19* they are swamping the one im trying to improve?? as ive spent most of today pushing the dish back n forth .. but all i can get is astra 19 or hotbird13!!

    any coments? i know it is possible to swamp radio signals if the if bandwidth is too wide .. but ive no idea about sat recievers and lnb,s. i am thinking about sticking the old 60cm back if it fails.

    thanks russ. [ps i have checked the lnb skew and i know the sat rx is set up ok] crazy.
     
  2. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Hi Russ welcome to the forum,

    Ive run dishes side by side before with no issues, I don't think its possible to swamp signals,

    Larger dishes are slightly harder to point/you must missing something obvious how you checking signal levels.
     
  3. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Dish farms have no issues.
     
  4. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    hi Martin. i have a cheap sat finder which i have to say is real naff. the gain control is either full signal of nothing. i used it today only in desperation. im thinking of getting something better ive seen online a handheld device which identifies the sat and has a small screen to monitor the ch. i cant believe why im having such a hard time of it. what ive been doing up till now [dont laugh] is using a small tv and having the sat box connected so i can see when the sat pops up. ive had no problems up till today .. although i know its pretty heath robinson .. its pretty foolproof .. and cheap .hi hi. today i got the Mrs involved and with a pair of walkie talkies i used the sat finder .. did it blind .. and got her to shout when i pointed at 13* and 19* but there was absolutely nothing in the middle. i wont give up yet. youve given me some encoragement so i will try again. ive made a note of where the dish should point for 13* and 19* so it must be somewhere in the middle. it has to be egh?
     
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  5. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Hi Russ, nothing wrong with taking the tv outside its one of the best ways to do it, using the wife is a waste of time at our house, good advice I would rule it out at yours ;):D,


    Take the tv outside and manually tune the set top box to a know transponder that you received on the 60cm FlySat Eutelsat 16A @ 16° East

    Once you've saved the transponder go to it in the transponder list highlight the transponder in question, you should have something like this just movement on one bar,

    IMG_1106.JPG IMG_1107.JPG
    What your wanting to see is movement of both bars as above, if your at 19E move the dish very very very slowly W, if your @ 13E you want to go E, once you get movement of both bars fine tune for best signal, up/down/left/right/skew lock the dish in position and mark it, if the wind ever moves it you have a reference to go back to.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  6. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    ha ha ha .. yep the mrs is a bit hit miss. ha ha ..you must have a similar model. anyhow .. interesting about signals. on the sat box both bars were showing a fair amount of signal on 16* even with the dish pointing elswhere. so i was confused. at one point i even switched off the other satellites [in the sat box] so i could concentrate on just the one im working on .. but that wasnt much sucess either. the best result was to set astra19 to the dish im working on and point it to get a good signal. then do the same with hot13. then i had a good idea where it should be pointing [in the middle]. also now ive moved the arm left-right so the old dish wont go straight back either! but youve given me encouragement though and if the rain holds off i may have a fiddle again today. im still considering a better sat finder as the one ive got,s a bit hopeless. it may be some help in the future. thanks for sparing your time. ill have a look at your suggestions now. russ
     
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  7. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    This is normal on this size dish 13 E 16E and 19.2 E are strong signals and close together, your very close to getting it right from this, fine little tweaks.

    Once you start getting over 2mtr size dishes things tighten up and its possible to eliminate this but not on a 1mtr.
     
  8. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    blimey .. even bigger? i dread to think how much bother i would be in .. ha ha.
    yes ive never tried this satellite on my big dish as i cant squeeze a lnb between 13 & 19. hence the upgrade from a 60cm dish. but it will put a smile on my face when ive cracked it.
    i did have a quick try yesterday. 13 and 19 were a doddle .. but ive a new sat finder on its way. i may have better luck. in the old days of analogue it was a bit easier to see the signals while turning the dish .. but since its digital now u have to be quite slow when turning the dish as it takes a little longer for the pictures to show. i did have the "no signal" go off the screen at one point and i held my breath .. no joy! but im not giving this up. i found it easier to do when it got dark! i had a job seeing the tv screen outside in daylight. ha. [top tip of the day] oh yeah. i also found another big siagnal that i cant fathom out what it is? its slightly lower [more westerly] than 13*. not by much. i tuned round but none of the other satellites responded. im going to investigate that later.
     
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  9. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    hi again. am i right in thinking if my offset dish is 26* .. does that mean it only needs about 4* of incline to make it 30* ? id had another mess with the tracking today still with no joy. tilting it back 30* looks crazy! the meter with buzzer [or should i say ex-buzzer] is really hopeless. ill wait for the better device.
     
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  10. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    As mentioned a small tv and set top box is as good as anything, anyhow your off set would depend on your make of dish generally its 22 degree, if your using the scale on the dish its only a guide don't count on it being 100% accurate.

    If you have locked 13/16/19.2 you only need to fine tune, very very little movement, from 13E to 19.2E you will only be talking 6/10mm from one to the other,

    The buzzer type meter wont tell you what satellite your on, this is a good meter for the money 2017 Genuine Freesat V8 DVB-S/S2 FTA Digital Satellite Meter Signal Finder In UK | eBay

    Dish pointer should help,
    Satellite Finder / Dish Alignment Calculator with Google Maps | DishPointer.com

    Your first post is a little vague to me what exactly are you wanting to get on this 1mtr dish 13 E 16 E and 19.2 E or just 16E ? some pictures of the setup might help.
     
  11. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    it was just 16*. what it is .. the neighbour has a big tree. say no more. back in ,95 all pics were easy. about 10yrs ago we upgraded the main dish to a 1mtr. thats the one at the bottom in my avatar pic. the spare dish was added mainly for something to do and because i cant get a lnb between 13 and 19. i have some pics somewhere of someones dish with cut dwn lnb,s and has about 30-40 right round .. but im not sure its just for show. we have 3x sat boxes in the house because none of them have rf out. anyhow we choose what to watch sometimes .. like soaps.

    its been ticking over like that for 10yrs. but this winter with some bad weather its been going off a lot. there was a time it never went off. im now looking at renting a monkey suit and cutting his blooming tree down .. ha ha. so thats the story. im fed up with the pic going off when it gets a bit cloudy.
    its got 3x quad lnbs and this one im having prob with has just a spare dual lnb which was working up till monday! so im not changing anything till i get it working. it is being a pain as i have other things to do.

    i think the sat finder u mentioned is very similar to the one im waiting for. its has the built in screen. saves me having to get setup with all the cables
     
  12. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    You should be able to relocate the dish if the tree is a issue, strange your getting 13 and 19 E though and struggling with 16E

    You can use this lnb to get in-between 13 and 19
    Capturedfdfdf.PNG

    Or better still get this monoblock.
    Single triplefeed 23mm LNB 13°E + 16°E + 19.2°E for 85cm dish
     
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  13. lincsat

    lincsat Super-Dooper Moderator Staff Member

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    Back in the Day, 16e was always a bit awkward as the popular frequencies were mirrored om 13e and 19e with much stronger signals - so if the dish was slightly out of shape or the LNB not at proper focus, then the neighboring signals would swamp it.

    I would check the dish looks in good shape and check the LNB focus.
     
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  14. cactikid

    cactikid Well-Known Member

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    if only a cutting laser could be attached to dish to clear field of vision of trees for a better signal.
     
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  15. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    ha ha .. i like your style. wow u could do that during the day no one would notice the laser. anyhow back to this saga.

    well ive had some results. i got the sat meter and still learning how to program it. i tried again using the meter with no luck. 2 days ago i took the new dish down in desperation and put the old 60cm dish back. i had no idea how to search with the new meter seeing as it wont add any satellites unless it can find them. i tried adding missing chnls on hot13 and astra19 and i did manage that but then no signal. so either it finds a signal when searching or not. a bit dissapointing but it wasnt a lot of money so it is what it is. pre programmed it would be fine for searching. it DID however get the elevation set right. got half the job done!

    today [thurs] i forced myself into the cold just for ten mins to turn the dish. well i have got eurobird16 back again on the old dish.! so maybe there is something out of alignment with the new dish .. [it looks ok] .. but it can wait now till the weather warms up.

    i may invest in a better meter as this one does not have HD cnls. so its a bit limited. maybe i can reclaim some cash back if i sell this one on. ive now scanned the satellite and got plenty of cnls in the memory now for future alignment.

    thanks for bearing with me. im going to have a look at the new posts now. chrs russ.
     
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  16. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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  17. ABA

    ABA Member

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    the bigger the dish the narrower the beam the more precise the line up has to be
    ive got a 7 ft 6 inch whats that 2.3 m prime focus fully motorized what a pig to
    set up and it don't help when the dish is on top of a 10 ft tower when I stand on
    the ground I can just reach the rim of the dish to a line it I needed a scaffold
    platform to stand on thank god did mine over 20 years ago don't use it much
    now as most of what I watch is on kodi so mite think about selling it trouble is
    dish is made of spun alley in one piece when I got it, it was nearly two grand
     
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  18. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    yes your right. i guess sometimes as you said before .. the simplest solutions can work out just as good. although my inline meter shows rf it is hit n miss. thanks for all the suggestions though. i still cant believe it didnt show something. sky28 is very strong so i will try setting the new dish up on the ground and messing with the lnb to see if it is out. but ill wait till it warms up. chrs russ
     
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  19. martin-f

    martin-f Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    2.3 ? or 2.2 ?
     
  20. zeroruss

    zeroruss Member

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    whoo .. that sounds super. but i think ill manage with my little dish & fixed. the thought of it jamming off ch one winter,s morning .. nahh. oh its raining and the 16*sat is dropping out again .. short lived.:rolleyes:
     

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